Initiative Ties

[billchamb]

DMG, p.63

It will often occur that initiative determination results in a tie. This merely indicates that each party has equal chances for acting and that attacks occur simultaneously. In cases of equal initiative score, damage accrues to both groups regardless of what is inflicted.

Okay, so I was distractedly re-reading stuff last night and as I tried (once again) to burn initiative into my memory, I found this little gem. Perhaps I'm taking it out of context, but I find myself with a coupla questions just from those three sentences.

1) How often does initiative tie? (assuming use of by-the-book d6)

2) What does that last sentence really mean about damage to the "group" vs. what's "inflicted?"

HELP!

[northrundicandus]

Easy enough.

The probabilty of simultaneous initiative is (1/6)*(1/6) = 2.78%.

The "damage accrues to both groups regardless of what is inflicted" statement simply means both parties can simultaneously kill each other.

[billchamb]

But does that mean that damage done by each party is summed then distributed amongst the combatants? This would be similar to Tunnels & Trolls group combat rules. I think where I'm getting stuck is "...regardless of what is inflicted." I dunno...this just sounds like some sort of paradox to me. How do you accrue damage regardless of what is inflicted?

Am I just being dense?

[billchamb]

Oh, and <3% doesn't seem like it warrants "often"...just a thought...

[northrundicandus]

billchamb said:

But does that mean that damage done by each party is summed then distributed amongst the combatants? This would be similar to Tunnels & Trolls group combat rules. I think where I'm getting stuck is "...regardless of what is inflicted." I dunno...this just sounds like some sort of paradox to me. How do you accrue damage regardless of what is inflicted?

Am I just being dense?

Side A - Goblin with 4 hits. Side B Fighter with 6 hits.

Rounds 1-4: closing to strike and lots of misses.

Round 5 Simultaneous:

Goblin hits and scores 6 points. The fighter would go down before he could attack if this was not an initiative tie round. The fighter hits the goblin for 3 points, then goes down.

Is that clearer?

[northrundicandus]

billchamb said:

Oh, and <3% doesn't seem like it warrants "often"...just a thought...

Oh it's more common than you think. That is about 1 round in 30, and you roll init every round.

If your average fight takes three rounds, then a simultaneous round will probably occur in one tenths of your fights.

:-)

[billchamb]

northrundicandus said:

Side A - Goblin with 4 hits. Side B Fighter with 6 hits.

Rounds 1-4: closing to strike and lots of misses.

Round 5 Simultaneous:

Goblin hits and scores 6 points. The fighter would go down before he could attack if this was not an initiative tie round. The fighter hits the goblin for 3 points, then goes down.

Is that clearer?

Yes. I get that. Thanks.

[northrundicandus]

northrundicandus said:

Easy enough.

The probabilty of simultaneous initiative is (1/6)*(1/6) = 2.78%.

The "damage accrues to both groups regardless of what is inflicted" statement simply means both parties can simultaneously kill each other.

I blew this calculation. Cias at Dragonsfoot set me straight:

No, the probability is still 1/6, or 16.666% of the time.

Your calculations would be correct only if both sides are trying to roll one predermined number at the same time. For example, there is only a 2.77% chance that both sides will roll a 1 at the same time. However, there is also a 2.77% chance that both sides will roll a 2 at the same time, and a 2.77% chance that both sides will roll a 3 at the same time, etc., etc.

[Finarvyn]

I do initiative by rolling 1d12 and adding DEX bonus. This spreads out the numbers more and makes ties less frequent.

I resolve ties as simultaneous, however, and let both sides attack in the same round so that they could perhaps kill each other. (Hee, hee) ;D

[northrundicandus]

Finarvyn said:

I do initiative by rolling 1d12 and adding DEX bonus. This spreads out the numbers more and makes ties less frequent.

I resolve ties as simultaneous, however, and let both sides attack in the same round so that they could perhaps kill each other. (Hee, hee) ;D

DUDE! This is the By the Book AD&D Forum!

Get thee to the Homebrew Forum!

;D

[northrundicandus]

Oh -

And Welcome to the Alehouse!

[Finarvyn]

northrundicandus said:

DUDE! This is the By the Book AD&D Forum!

Get thee to the Homebrew Forum!

;D

Oops. I got carried away with enthusiasm and forgot where I was. After all these years, sometimes I forget which rules are in THE BOOK and which ones were local. I believe I have sinned in the same way in the "By the Book OD&D" forum as well. I shall endeavor to be more carefull in the future.

I stand ... er ... sit corrected.