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Post by AxeMental on Aug 17, 2005 6:34:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure where this should go, but as it relates to the topic brought up here about wisdom and clerical spells I stuck it here.
So, what are the different types of magic systems used in FRPGs and is there a diff. in how magic spells and prayer based spells work. (For instance, in AD&D besides the question of accessing spells, they seem to work the same for MUs and clerics(casting verbalizations and gestures, and spell determined area of effect and effect). I realize that some games use a point system while others have memorization. But do any use the level of intelegence or wisdom (or some other stat) to determine the power of the spell (such as a cleric/healer with a high wisdom being able to heal more hp due to a higher wisdom, or a magician being able to do more damage with a spell due to higher intelligence...that sort of thing?
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Post by rogattny on Aug 17, 2005 17:08:32 GMT -5
Aside from the Vancian system, AD&D actually has two other magic systems.
The first is the psionics system, which is really only magic by another name. That's a classic spell point system, with a pool of points, a set amount of points expended with each use, and negative effects if too much power is used too often (lowered resistance to psionic attacks and chances to attract psionic nasties).
The second is an "inherant" system where a certain magical power can be used often limited to a certain number of times over a certain period of time. Most monsters' magical abilities function this way, as do many character abilities, especially the paladins'.
The vast majority of rpg magic systems are variations on one of these three themes (and the mathematicians in the audience will tell us that all three can be represented as different ways of expressing a spell point system).
The exception is non-spell based magic. In the three above systems there is a set menu of powers that the spell-caster chooses from. A non-spell based system would be one where the caster determines what his magic will do at the time of casting. ("Abbra-cadabra! I turn him into a fish.") This requires a lot of on the fly referee adjudication as to whether the spell-caster is strong enough to create the desired effect.
R.A.
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Post by PapersAndPaychecks on Aug 17, 2005 17:18:28 GMT -5
Dragon Warriors has an alternative. IIRC, the way it works is that every time the caster casts a spell, he rolls a die against a target number. He adds his level, and subtracts the level of the spell; if he rolls above the target number, he's groovy. If he rolls below it, then the spell still goes off, but he can't cast any more spells until dawn the next day.
There are other restrictions (he can't try to cast high level spells until he's high level himself) but it's a reasonably good alternative keeping track of mana or needing to pre-select his spell slots.
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Post by northrundicandus on Aug 17, 2005 17:24:11 GMT -5
Many BRP systems use a mechanic where your Intelligence or Power/Magic Points attribute determines the chance of successfully casting a spell. You need MPs to cast spells, and the number of points you put into the spell can determine how drastic the effect is. But, in many cases, the more MPs you've lost, the harder it is to cast more spells.
And Runequest spirit combat is very interesting, with the combatants slowly draining each other's magic points (or stealing them!) in a battle of wills.
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 17, 2005 18:52:52 GMT -5
North: "Many BRP systems use a mechanic where your Intelligence or Power/Magic Points attribute determines the chance of successfully casting a spell. You need MPs to cast spells, and the number of points you put into the spell can determine how drastic the effect is. But, in many cases, the more MPs you've lost, the harder it is to cast more spells."
That sounds like a pretty cool system, esp. the part about loosing points making it harder to cast more spells. I wonder if you could do something like add a point system ontop of the AD&D system (so your high inteligence (say +1 at 16, +2 at 17 and +3 at 18) could represent extra dice for damage. A fire ball cast by an MU with an 18 intel could do damage plus max of 3 extra dice. Or perhaps it could increase duration of spells 1 rd per point etc. But this would eat up MPs per spell level. If not magic users then perhaps clerics.
BTW what do you mean by BRP systems?
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Post by Semaj The Silent on Aug 17, 2005 18:57:37 GMT -5
He means basic roleplaying games made by Chaosium. Generally a good system.
In my hobbled-together RPG, magic users must "tap" magical energy from organic items or other items that have been crafted by thinking creatures or from stones that have seen lots of geological activity. The tapped energy powers spells, which means theoretically the caster can keep going so long as he has something to tap. There are some slight restrictions but that's along a different line of discussion.
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Post by Gandalf Istari on Aug 18, 2005 6:25:22 GMT -5
...And Runequest spirit combat is very interesting, with the combatants slowly draining each other's magic points (or stealing them!) in a battle of wills. This is something I want to implement in my house rules in some way, but haven't gotten around to thinking alot about yet. The NPC class Incantatrix from Dragon got me started down this line of thinking.
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Post by WSmith on Aug 24, 2005 8:37:14 GMT -5
I am totally convinced, after years of tinkering with AD&D magic, that the Vancian model works the best for D&D as presented.
Now, other game systems make good use of other spell systems. Take V2 of WFRP. There are no slots or spell points. The caster has some kind of casting skill. He rolls vs. this skill to see if he can cast from an allowed spell list he knows from. The roll determines success. To make the spell more powerful if he chooses, the difficulty number becomes more difficult. BUT, the chances for failure increase. Spell failure is some bad juju in WFRP, from damage to transformation to some other bad things.
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