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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 16, 2005 12:48:26 GMT -5
Okay, fat cats. Here is my rough draft for an alternate, dex-based Fighting Man that I have been thinking about since I signed on here. As there is no thief in Original, I wanted a lightly armored kinda guy. Honest opinions would be appreciated!
OPTIONAL CHARACTER CLASS:
Fighting Man (Dex-based)
This optional character class is based on the swashbucklers of literature. He has much in common with his more muscle-bound relatives, but relies on his speed and agility for fighting prowess rather than brute strength and armor.
The dexterity-based Fighting Man acts as a standard Fighting Man with the following exceptions:
Races: Only Humans and Elves (optionally Halflings) can choose this class. If an elf chooses this class, he cannot choose to be a standard Fighting Man when he gains a new level. He will always be either this class or the Magic-user.
Prime Requisite: Dexterity. Standard percentage bonus/penalty based on Dexterity rather than Strength.
Saving Throws: As per standard Fighting Man.
Fighting Ability: As per standard Fighting Man.
Hit Dice: As per Cleric. He is not as brawny nor as “tough” as a standard Fighting Man.
Weapons permitted: Any one-handed melee weapon and all missile weapons.
Armor permitted: Leather only; no shields (but see below).
Special Abilities:
1. This Fighting Man uses his Dexterity to great advantage in combat. Hence, he gets a +1 bonus to his armor class for each point of Dexterity above 14. At 16 Dexterity, he is at +2 to his armor class, for instance.
2. This character class can use a dagger, hand axe or a buckler in his off-hand as if it were a shield. He gets a +1 bonus to armor class for wielding such a second weapon.
3. Erol Flynn Ability (for lack of a better name): When this character wants to do something acrobatic (cutting a rope and swinging on a chandelier across a room, for instance), the Dungeon Master should award this character a bonus to his chances. This bonus is entirely up to the DM and should be based on logic and the player’s description of his feat of agility.
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 16, 2005 13:08:34 GMT -5
Looks pretty good. In keeping with OD&D (pre-Greyhawk supplement) convention the Dex bonus should subtract from his opponent's "to hit" roll instead of from the character's AC (thus a character in leather with Dex 17 isn't AC 4, he's AC 7 with -3 on his opponents' to hit rolls -- if you're using the 'alternate' combat system the results are the same (which is why supplement I switched over to the now-standard AC adjustment system), but if you're using Chainmail's man-to-man charts it might make a difference).
Also, I'm a little uncertain how the second-weapon-as-shield works. Does the player choose round by round whether to attack or parry with his second weapon, is he always allowed to do both, or is he only allowed to parry with it and not allowed to attack?
Also, under "prime requisite" I'd allow this character to trade points to raise his Dex score in the same manner in which normal fighters can raise their strength.
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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 16, 2005 14:53:03 GMT -5
I will look when I get home at the books and see about the AC thing. I suppose it could go either way, but a -4 to hit on 2d6 is a bit steep. Maybe I will lower it to 15 or 16 Dex, -1; 17 or 18 Dex, -2. Will think about it.
I was envisioning him using the 2nd weapon for either offense or defense each round. Will add that wording.
Yes, I forgot that, thanks.
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Post by Lord Cias on Aug 16, 2005 15:51:27 GMT -5
That actually looks pretty good. I do have one suggestion wrt using a 2nd weapon.
When using two weapons, the dex-based fighting man may choose to either attack with both weapons at the same time (two separate "to hit" rolls and two damage rolls) OR he may use his main weapon to parry (and thus receive a bonus as if using a shield) and attack with his secondary weapon (be it dagger or hand axe). If using a buckler, he may attack with his main weapon and use the buckler as a shield.
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Post by WSmith on Aug 16, 2005 16:14:59 GMT -5
Thoth, that looks pretty darn good. Is the hobbit, if optionally allowed this class, restricted to 4th level as usual?
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 16, 2005 16:25:17 GMT -5
Thoth, that looks pretty darn good. Is the hobbit, if optionally allowed this class, restricted to 4th level as usual? I'm not Thoth, but I'd say both elves and hobbits should be able to attain up to 6th level in this class. |
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Post by WSmith on Aug 16, 2005 16:31:06 GMT -5
Thoth, that looks pretty darn good. Is the hobbit, if optionally allowed this class, restricted to 4th level as usual? I'm not Thoth, but I'd say both elves and hobbits should be able to attain up to 6th level in this class. I was thinking along the same lines myself. It seems to fit a little closer the image I have of a hobbit fighting man anyway. |
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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 16, 2005 19:36:41 GMT -5
6th level would be good. Or, use something like Bregh's house rules above; allow an additional level for prime attribute of 17 and two levels for 18. For all demihumans, of course.
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 16, 2005 21:46:01 GMT -5
Thoth, looks cool. Does this guy have any particular sneaking around abilities or increased ability to find traps etc. I remember some time back posts about doing away with the thief as it didn't fit in really. Did you consider this as a kind of replacement at all?
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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 17, 2005 7:27:17 GMT -5
Yes, he is a replacement for the thief. I don't have any increased sneaking in mind, but the smart player should be able to sucker the DM with his acrobatics....  I am going to print out the thief abilities for all classes that someone posted before (sorry, don't remember who it was). |
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 17, 2005 7:41:27 GMT -5
Thoth: "Yes, he is a replacement for the thief. I don't have any increased sneaking in mind, but the smart player should be able to sucker the DM with his acrobatics...."
Thoth thats a really nice idea/philosophy, and works to further remove the skills based nonsense from the game. Although I like this for thieves in AD&D as it is unique to the class (assassins and monks also) in D&D, a much simpler game, I can see how HIS and MS would really stick out as rigid. The only thing you would need to watch is excessive DMing (in either direction) and pushy players. The thief tables were nice as a yard stick to avoid this kind of thing. One still had to have a logical plan to sneak past a guard, in AD&D, but you never had the DM having to wait to computate all the details of the plan nor the player have to come up with stuff he doesn't really know (as the player isn't really a thief). That would be like having a fighter describe how he thrusts and perrys every blow when in reality the player has never picked up a sword in his life. The skill system in relation to thieves is an abstraction as much as 60 second combat rounds. So, you'll need to play test this class to make sure it doesn't come off as goofy.
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Post by godentag on Aug 17, 2005 8:39:43 GMT -5
Ha! I love the "Errol Flynn Ability"...and especially the way it's described.
Seriously, Thoth Amon, the class sounds great and the description reads just like something out of the earliest issues of "The Dragon". I'd much rather use this class in an OD&D game than the thief from Greyhawk.
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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 18, 2005 7:43:51 GMT -5
Updated with recommendations from above.
OPTIONAL CHARACTER CLASS:
Fighting Man (Dex-based)
This optional character class is based on the swashbucklers of literature. He has much in common with his more muscle-bound relatives, but relies on his speed and agility for fighting prowess rather than brute strength and armor.
The dexterity-based Fighting Man acts as a standard Fighting Man with the following exceptions:
Races: Only Humans, Elves and Halflings can choose this class. If an elf chooses this class, he cannot choose to be a standard Fighting Man when he gains a new level. He will always be either this class or the Magic-user. Halflings are notoriously sneaky and are thus allowed to proceed to the 6th level of ability in this class.
Prime Requisite: Dexterity. Standard percentage bonus/penalty based on Dexterity rather than Strength.
Saving Throws: As per standard Fighting Man.
Fighting Ability: As per standard Fighting Man.
Hit Dice: As per Cleric. He is not as brawny nor as “tough” as a standard Fighting Man.
Weapons permitted: Any one-handed melee weapon and all missile weapons.
Armor permitted: Leather only; no shields (but see below).
Special Abilities:
1. This Fighting Man uses his Dexterity to great advantage in combat. Hence, if using the alternate combat system, he gets a +1 bonus to his armor class for each point of Dexterity above 14. At 16 Dexterity, he is at +2 to his armor class, for instance. If using the Chainmail combat system, those attacking this character have a -1 on their attack roll if this character has a Dexterity of 15 or 16 or a -2 on their attack roll if his Dexterity is 17 or 18.
2. This character class can use a dagger, hand axe or a buckler in his off-hand as if it were a shield. He gets a +1 bonus to armor class for wielding such a second weapon. If the player chooses, the second weapon may be used to attack with a -2 penalty on his attack roll. The character cannot both parry and attack in the same round with the second weapon.
3. Erol Flynn Ability: When this character wants to do something acrobatic (cutting a rope and swinging on a chandelier across a room, for instance) or stealthy (hiding behind a curtain and eavesdropping, for instance), the Dungeon Master should award this character a bonus to his chances. This bonus is entirely up to the DM and should be based on logic and the player’s description of his feat of agility.
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