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Post by AxeMental on Aug 13, 2005 9:42:23 GMT -5
Converting 3E players to 1E was one of the stated intents of "the game which should not be named". This lie was exposed by many who post here along time ago. Yet, I think that goal is worthwhile (if actually attempted). The trick would be to get the 3tards screaming for a reprint of 1E (as Wizbro does not have the ability to produce something of that quality do to the saps they have in charge). This could and probably will happen at some time in the future as some kind of limited collectors edtion. But only if a demand is created. It's amazing the crap that is still in print, and yet AD&D can't be purchased in even a paper back form.
One possibility is that 3E will start seriously slipping in sales (since this is a fad based game), and more supls. won't be the answer. To stop this downward spiral they might republish the "original" 1E set thus grounding (more firmly) 3Es historical link to 1E and cutting 3E light games (like C&C) off at the legs by offering the "real thing".
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Post by TheDungeonDelver on Aug 13, 2005 14:03:40 GMT -5
Well, I've got to toot my own horn here and say that the game I run at Hurricon/RECON for HMGS-South has been "sold out" every time. I typically have 8 open seats, and am usually asked by 4-5 people per session if I'm going to have an open spot or if they can join in. No-one flinches at the notion of AD&D, nobody complains that their characters can't do N or X - they sit down, they game, they love it.
Many comments I get are along the lines of "Wow, I didn't know anyone still played AD&D" or "I used to have so much fun playing AD&D" or "It's so refreshing to play old AD&D for a change..."
Of course a large part of the draw is the awesome Dwarven Forge setup I use; it hooks players visually and they want to see the whole map uncovered and see what's at the end. There's typically a few players who'll hang around after the game and talk with me and without me prompting there's often discussion of what they don't like about 3e, and it usually starts with "I like how x happened in your game, it's so complicated in 3e!" or "I never knew the Ranger could be so balanced!"
All it takes is making people really pay attention to the game, and a con setting is a great way to recruit new players, that's for sure.
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Post by northrundicandus on Aug 13, 2005 14:24:51 GMT -5
Most of the hardcore 3E players don't like old school gaming period. Why convert them? They like all that baggage that 3.x has. I like finding people who've never played any RPG before, or players who will play anything, as long as the Referee is competent.
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 13, 2005 17:21:58 GMT -5
North, although I agree that many of the 3E players enjoy powergaming, thespian acting, story plots about homo-tortois/monk/vampires upset they can't make it with the king's son etc., yet I'm forced to believe that many of 3Es buyers and players are like us (enjoy making believe after the age of 8) and have no other choice then 3E since its literally the only FRPG at the local book store and have no yardstick to compare it to earlier games (hell they probably never even saw a 1E PH).
The fact of the matter is that 3E has its core people who hype the game, but I suspect there are more disgruntled sorts (who sense it's a crock of Sh*t) who would switch over to a 1E if they got exposed to it, at least I hope so. Didn't we have the same thing going on back in the late 70s early 80s with 1E (some hard core guys that got it, some dweebs who hated it and altered it into power gaming, and a 3rd group that was inbetween movable to either camp.)
Oh, the reason to convert 3E players (as opposed to getting new players) is to get them wanting 1E republished. At this point I don't care about anything else really .
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Post by order99 on Aug 13, 2005 19:50:44 GMT -5
The big problem is going to be finding 1E stuff-if Joe Genero the Gamer thinks 1E is really great after someone introduces him to it,what's he supposed to do? 2E is easier to find-for a short while yet at least-and 3E is ridiculously hard to avoid...Basic D&D seems a bit more plentiful,but again,its not AD&D 1st.
Quite frankly,i'd settle for PDF at this point-my local OfficeMax will print a PDF for roughly $4,and binders/protectors are another$4 or so.If 2E and BX products are available at many PDF repositories-legally-why not 1E?
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Post by order99 on Aug 13, 2005 19:57:02 GMT -5
As long as i'm on the subject of PDF,anyone have a theory on WHY I can get WOTC-approved downloads of 2E and BX,but no 1E? It's just puzzleing me no end...  |
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 13, 2005 20:19:57 GMT -5
Yeah, it's amazing 1E books and modules just went poof about 3 or 4 years ago from all the used book stores around here.
Anyway, get their 3E base fragmented...break the 3Eers who play because they have no alternative to start asking for the original coke.
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Post by Gandalf Istari on Aug 13, 2005 20:27:48 GMT -5
You can get 1e pdfs from RPGNow for about 5 bucks each, so I'm not sure order99 what you mean by saying you can't get them anywhere. This link shows pdfs of 1e rulebooks for download, and there are links on the side for modules, etc.: www.rpgnow.com/default.php?cPath=1_297_301&1e books are easily gotten from Amazon or Ebay as well, and pretty cheap. Really there's no shortage of 1e books going around if that's what one wants to play. Heck, you can even get a copy of Deities and Demigods with the original Cthulhu and Elric mythos for a reasonable price still (although it won't be mint condition most likely). |
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Post by rogattny on Aug 15, 2005 9:12:24 GMT -5
If ENWorld is any indication, a lot of the 3e fans are people who played 1e and didn't like it. I've often said, 3e is D&D for people who didn't like D&D in the first place. I'm not sure that those folks can be converted.
The source of 1e fans are:
1. People who used to play 1e and no longer game.
2. People who used to play 1e, and now play 3e only because they can't find a 1e game or don't realize that anyone still plays it.
3. People who've never played 1e, and are only playing 3e because they don't know the difference (i.e. kids).
4. People who don't game.
R.A.
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Post by francisca on Aug 15, 2005 9:49:02 GMT -5
Most of the hardcore 3E players don't like old school gaming period. Why convert them? They like all that baggage that 3.x has. I like finding people who've never played any RPG before, or players who will play anything, as long as the Referee is competent. North has got it right, and frankly, I'm not too keen about telling others how to have fun. |
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Post by francisca on Aug 15, 2005 9:52:42 GMT -5
Oh, the reason to convert 3E players (as opposed to getting new players) is to get them wanting 1E republished. At this point I don't care about anything else really . To what end? I'm serious, do you just want newly printed books? |
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Post by Mythmere on Aug 16, 2005 16:41:09 GMT -5
Hardcore 3e players can't be converted to anything. D20 is a totally different mindset and play mode from even 2e, much less 1e. No need to get into it - everyone knows all the points that I'd make about the differences.
Hardcore 3e players like it because of the differences.
But there are many, many gamers out there who are not hardcore players. I bet there are a lot of people who drifted away from gaming entirely because of 3e, and those are people who (if they can be found out there) who would like to hear about old school rules, games, and style of play.
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 16, 2005 17:33:32 GMT -5
I wrote:
"Oh, the reason to convert 3E players (as opposed to getting new players) is to get them wanting 1E republished. At this point I don't care about anything else really ."
Francisca
"To what end? I'm serious, do you just want newly printed books?"
I see AD&D as the best game created in our generation, no several generations. Better infact then monopoly or risk. Imagine if these classics were history. Thats what happened to AD&D. The point of perfection had been reached and should have been stopped. By offering the original game to kids you keep the game alive for future generations rather then continue the crap machine from churning out more crap.
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Post by Ska on Aug 16, 2005 17:51:13 GMT -5
Francisca---you miss the point. There are 3e people who, when explained the differences which make 1e a better game, will switch. Not all, but enough to make it worthwhile.
Heck, Mistere is such a convert if my memory serves.
Anyhting to grow the 1e ranks is worth it.
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Post by AxeMental on Aug 16, 2005 18:00:21 GMT -5
Also, there is a difference between finding 1E books on line and finding them on books shelves. Sure I can buy monopoly online at Ebay used. But I'd rather have it new from Barnes and Noble.
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