Fly spell

[billchamb]

In case you haven't been there and following it, this DF thread started about Weight capacity. I have unintentionally managed to drift it into Area of Effect discussion and now parameters of spell casting. Given the examples I (and others) have included, what say you BtB?

Fly spell

[Jerry Mapes]

Hmmmm.

Based on what the DMG (Pg. 52) has to say about airborne mounts and emcumberance and Men flying (granted picking someone or something up isnt truely a mount but nonetheless it is added encumberance); I would have to go with the character could pick up someone/thing within thier lifting/emcumberance capacity and carry them along. Since per DMG (same page) Fly spell confers a Class B rating for manuverability, when carrying someone/thing, like a flyinig mount, the character would drop one class to a Class C for manuverability. Encumberance factors/checks to be applied as normal depending on the speed of flight as it would relate to walk/run, encumbered or not.

Jerry

[billchamb]

I am (I think) okay with that. My greater issue is with:

1) The touch aspect;

2) Casting while flying.

Regarding #1: Maybe I'm way off track here, but having just skimmed the Magic-user spell descriptions, there seems to be quite a bit of latitude. Some say "Personal," others "the magic user" and others "creature touched." Now, I noticed that in all the Touch-range spells, it describes a recipient of the spell. Scarce few of them specifically have text to the effect of the m-u self-inflicting the spell. Can/Should I take that to mean the others without such provision in the description cannot be used in that manner? A `Guest' at DF tried to demean how/why I would even think of such a thing. I'm just looking at what's printed in the book. In this specific example, the Fly spell doesn't state the m-u can make him/herself fly, but the DMG example clearly allows not only casting the spell on oneself, but then additional casting once aloft. Which brings me to...

Regarding #2: While I realize traversing 3' in 1 minute is quite slow, I disagree that it qualifies as "relatively motionless" as it pertains to spellcasting, nor is that the same concentration level as normal walking. I'd imagine its like taking "baby steps," but have you ever tried to walk that slow and NOT have to concentrate on doing it?! (aside from roadside DUI stops, that is) The DMG example allows casting "on the fly" if hovering or moving at 3" or less. (Assuming it means 3"/30'/turn is how I got to the 3'/1 min.)

One possible foolhardy outcome of it is, according to the spell description, only the DM knows for sure how long the spell will last. Imagine for just a moment, a flying m-u, trying to cast when his Fly spell gives out...

Again, am I really that far afield with my thoughts?
Am I making something out of nothing?

[Jerry Mapes]

Its not something out of nothing! EGG can be cryptic!

As for the touch aspect, the reference in the description is "recipient". Who is and can be the recipient? Can you give something to yourself? Of course, but not all things are wanted

I would say in most cases its more of "would he" than a "could/can he." I cant find anything yea or nay except that those spells that MUST be used on someone else and those spells the MUST be used in oneself are definate in not only description but in "name." (I.E. Polymorph Self, Polymorph Other)

Looking at the AOEs most all that deal with touch or affecting one thing implicates that it can be used against human/humanoid. The DMG is specific where the Spell Caster ONLY can be the recipient in the AOE. But does this mean that if it doesnt say you can cast it on yourself then you cant? I would say no, this isnt the implication.

EGG seemed to always make sure to specify when it had to be X and only X. The rest he left vague as a "you understood" that if if he didnt say X and only X then X could be A thru Z depending on the circumstance and how the surrounding context is defiined.

The DMG and PH seems to read (define the context) that Creature can mean any human, humanoid, monster, or animal. Person is only Human or Humanoid. Monster is only non-human/non-humanoid. Animals can fall into Creature or Monster catagories.

Taking this further a PC Magic-User can be Human or Humanoid and therfore also considered a Creature by the context definitions (see also Geas spell). So a DM could judge that ANY spell that specifically does not state that it can not be cast on oneself could be cast on oneself. Again we are back to would he? In case of Fly or Invisibility... sure. Fireball or Geas... doubtfull.


Now...

For casting on the fly.... whew! I am gonna have to do more reading. It seems contradictory. I have yet to be able to find where it defines just how much movement a magic-user can do when casting aside from that required by the spell. Obviously one would get no Dex for AC in the air as on the ground but beyond that I'm just not seeing much other than the texts you have pointed out.

Jerry

[Rob]

Casting on the fly is a toughie. I'd say that the M-U couldn't do more than drift with the breeze/wind, as moving would require concentration that should be going into casting a spell. Also, looking at the Battlesystems rules, which allow spell casters to move or cast, and not both in one round (unless hasted, IIRC), makes an even stronger argument for my previous call on the matter. That's just me, though, and I tend to be a bit of a meanie....

[billchamb]

Rob said:

Casting on the fly is a toughie. I'd say that the M-U couldn't do more than drift with the breeze/wind, as moving would require concentration that should be going into casting a spell. <snip>

Rob,

Thanks for the input. I agree with you, but yesterday I found discovered this provision in the DMG, in the Adventures in the Air section:

DMG, p.52 (Adventures in the Air):

Fly spell: Utilizing a fly spell takes as much concentration as walking so most spell could be cast while flying, either while hovering or moving slowly (3" or less).

So, seemingly, once the Fly spell is cast, it takes as much concentration as breathing, blinking, etc. The movement conflict comes from the statement on a caster staying "relatively motionless" (when casting in melee) found on DMG, p.65. Is there a difference if s/he is NOT trying to cast during melee?