GenCons and Ternaments

[AxeMental]

Has anyone ever partisipated in a judged ternament (perhaps at a con), or even gone to watch one? How is it judged and at what speed does it progress. Also, do players role play or is it pure tactics? I have always been fasinated by the idea of a bunch of guys competing to be the best player, unfortunately there was probably no cash prize, infact what prize did the winners get at these events?

[foster1941]

The sort of tournaments you see in the early AD&D modules (the A series, the R series, C1 & 2, etc.) were pretty much a thing of the past by the time I started going to Cons (c. 1986) and had been replaced by the debased crapfest exemplified by 'module' C6: The Official RPGA Tournament Handbook and such early 2E travesties as WG9: Gargoyle and "The Terrible Trouble at Tragidore" (the adventure included with the 2E DM Screen) in which the actual 'action' of the adventure was completely incidental and the idea was just to roleplay in the showiest/hammiest possible manner for 4 hours -- advancement to later rounds (and winners in the final round) was based on votes from the players at the table, so the way to get votes was to roleplay in a showy/hammy manner; tactical thinking, problem-solving skill, and effective teamwork were completely irrelevant (as was actually finishing the module -- frequently there'd be so much 'roleplaying' that the group never made it past the first or second encounter). The reward for 'winning' such tournaments was 'points' in the RPGA (which gave dubious bragging rights and eventually qualified you to play in 'master level' tournaments) and gift certificates for TSR merchandise.

The one exception to this was the venerable GenCon Open, which was organized separately from the RPGA and was thus organized in teams of 9 rather than 6 and judged on a team-by-team (rather than player-by-player) basis based on a mathematical formula of number of encounters completed in the 4-hour slot, number of surviving characters, and bonuses and penalties for particular actions (see module C1: Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan or A1: Slave Pits of the Undercity for example scoring-sheets). These adventures were still very tactical and problem-solving based, and there wasn't a whole lot of roleplaying (except when role-playing was the way to get past a particular obstacle -- but you didn't see much in-character player-on-player rp the way you did in other RPGA tournaments). The team that won the GenCon Open got a trophy and possibly a cash prize (I don't actually know, because I never won, or even came close for that matter). RPGA tournaments sucked. The GenCon Open was cool (until 1990 when the Open was a Spelljammer adventure that was so lame that it drove me away never to return -- except for a couple of company-sponsored demo games I didn't do any roleplaying at all at cons after about 1990, even though I kept going to GenCon every year until 1997 -- it was all about seminars and wargames/miniatures and the dealer room and especially the auction (which is where most of my game collection was acquired); as far as I was concerned the RPGA could go stuff itself).

I have no idea what tournaments at cons are like nowadays, but have heard that there's no rp at all and it's just players rolling dice using their various skills, feats, etc. to defeat the various challenges. So almost completely opposite of what tournaments were like when I was playing but oddly just as horrible-sounding and unappealing...

[AxeMental]

Wow, I had no idea you went to that many Cons Foster. You must have lived relatively close. Thats very cool. So, the later stuff was sucky sickly role play. That figures. You made an excellent destinction that I have always realized at some level but have never heard vocalized (or spelt out anyway).

You wrote: "there wasn't a whole lot of roleplaying (except when role-playing was the way to get past a particular obstacle -- "

Perhaps thats the difference between the way we 1Eers role play and the way the players of later editions do. 1Eers don't typically role play for the sake of it, we role play when thats the only option, its what needs to be done: to get some place, make group decisisions, buy stuff, find out clues, etc., certainly not to socialize in game. Didn't Gideon Thorne say the Trolls role play like this, without even roling dice. WTF fun is there in that, this is a game after all. Thats the differeince in Gygaxian role play and those that came later (well, lets say good role play shared by COC and other RPGs that didn't focus on table acting, vs. the crappy ones played by complete social missfits who used the game as a substitute for real life, and had no interest in accomplishing things but rather would prefer sitting around method acting.

Anyhow, yeah that Spell Jammer really sucked, and should have been jammed up it's creators a$$ to cork the flow of diarreah that was soon to follow.

[foster1941]

The town I grew up in (Evansville, Indiana) wasn't that big (~150,000 people) but for whatever reason had a really healthy gaming community and sponsored 2 local cons -- ConTact in the fall was actually a sci-fi con but had some gaming, Glathricon in May-June was an all-gaming con and was considered one of the premier small/regional cons and thus drew lots of RPGA people and 'big name' guests (it was at Glathricon '88 that I met and played with EGG). I started going to ConTact in fall of 86 and Glathricon in spring of 87.

In 1988 I also started going to GenCon, which was then held in Milwaukee which is a good distance away from Evansville (~7-8 hour drive) but we had relatives there (my grandfather on my mom's side grew up there) and my mom liked it as an end-of-summer 'retreat' where she could relax and prepare for the upcoming school year (she's a college English professor) so it became something of an annual tradition for us -- in later years (~95-97) I actually didn't spend that much time at the con and spent more time just hanging around Milwaukee (which is a pretty cool little city, and which I wouldn't mind going back to someday).

Those are the only cons I ever went to -- ConTact maybe 4 times, Glathricon maybe 7 (they eventually stopped having it in the mid 90s), and GenCon 10 times (1988-97). There are gaming cons out here in LA (not least among them GenCon SoCal held in Anaheim, about an hour's drive away) but I've never been to any of them (or really even had the desire to go).

Since GenCon moved from Milwaukee to Indianapolis a couple years ago one of my old gaming buddies who still lives in Evansville and who used to go to the local cons with me but never made it to GenCon (and was always jealous that I went) has been trying to talk me to coming back to town and the two of us taking a roadie up to Indianapolis (which is ~3 hrs away), and some year I might actualy do it, but it would be solely for the sake of spending time with him (and perhaps unloading some of the old crappy games currently stored in my mom's basement at the auction) -- I have little to no desire to do any gaming there and can't imagine there's anything I'd even want to buy, and Gary Gygax no longer bothers going (because Indy is a lot further from Lake Geneva than Milwaukee -- ~4 hrs vs. ~45 min) so I wouldn't even have that to look forward to.

[AxeMental]

Ahhh, honestly it probably stopped being worth going to once 2E came out, and I wouldn't think of doing it now unless I was guarenteed to hook up with some old schoolers. Infact, the closest thing to a Con I ever went to (Geektober Fest 2002) was like walking onto an alien planet, luckily there were a few others wondering around with the three core books in hand. But, that was a long time ago, and Dave Arn. was speaking so thats what got them in.

Whats needed is a new game that isn't dependent on the creepy crowd, but rather regular Joes and Janes.