Holly Symbols wood/silver

[AxeMental]

Is there any mention of using a holly symbol to effect battle vs. undead, ghosts, evil creatures, etc. I figure the vampire would be effected, but what about a ghoul, or some other very evil creature.

[AxeMental]

Anyone? I know vampires but what else would a cross be used against. Perhaps this is an "up to the DM thing".

[Ermanaric]

The way I always understood it, holy symbols are used only by clerics and druids. I assumed that they were only used for turning. I don't recall any ruling on using holy symbols as weapons.

[Jerry Mapes]

Gads Its been too long since i combed thru the books.

i dont recall them being used as weapons but I seem to recall them not only being used for Turning but in a couple occassions... Spell Components?

although it may be something to look into further in the House Rules... I see potential for something along the lines of Holy Symbol/Relics weapons along the lines of the Holy Avenger sword. There could be something in the core that i have overlooked along these lines already that i have jsut missed... I wouldnt be surprised.

[foster1941]

The cleric's holy symbol is the required material component for many spells, and I've also assumed (though I'm not sure if it was just an assumption or actually stated in the rules anywhere) that the cleric must present his holy symbol in order to turn undead. I don't think holy symbols are mentioned anyplace else (perhaps in the vampire description in the MM?).

As for wood vs. iron vs. silver, AFAIK it's just a flavor/prestige thing and there's no practical/rules difference between them.

[BonesMcCoy]

The PHB on p.104 says the cleric must step in front of the undead, present his holy symbol and speak to turn the undead.

The vampire description talks about the use of a holy symbol of LG (and LG only, such as a cross) to keep it at bay, but it does no actual damage. None of the other undead I checked were affected in any special way by a holy symbol.

[AxeMental]

Thanks guys, it's good to know I wasn't missing something. I still get the impression holly symbols are for everyone not just clerics. Perhaps the DM can make a call when the player attempts to do stuff with a holly/unholly symbol.

[blackprinceomuncie]

AxeMental said:

I still get the impression holly symbols are for everyone not just clerics. Perhaps the DM can make a call when the player attempts to do stuff with a holly/unholly symbol.

I think the obvious intent of the Vampire description is that anyone can use garlic, a mirror or a holy symbol to ward off a vampire (not just clerics/druids). However, the term "boldly" implies that the presentation has certain requirements. In my own personal judgement, someone presenting a holy symbol of a deity of whom they are not a follower might be less "bold" than someone who actually follows the deity in question. In some cases (for example if the character presenting the holy symbol were several steps removed from the alignment of the deity in question or worshipped another deity who was opposed to the deity whose symbol was being presented) I might have the character make a save vs. fear or some other roll to determine whether their faith in the symbol is sufficient to allow a "bold" presentation.

Obviously not an official rule, but I think the "presented boldly" clause is probably there to allow DMs some wiggle room to get around PCs who walk around with LG holy symbols in their pockets at all times in order to grant themselves immunity from vampires.

[AxeMental]

Foster: "As for wood vs. iron vs. silver, AFAIK it's just a flavor/prestige thing and there's no practical/rules difference between them."

I just took a quick look at the DMG and could find nothing about crosses or silver's effect on undead or summoned creatures.

I can remember when we first played AD&D back in the 80s we all wanted to buy crosses and holly water asap. As soon as players could they purchased silver crosses at the encouragement of our DM. I always assumed he new something I missed in the DMG; I think he was brought up on D&D perhaps there is something in there. In any case, its kind of disappointing there's not something there for the average Joe adventurer other then vampires.