Age Modifiers and the starting PC

[Ermanaric]

The DMG has rules for adjusting ability scores based on age. It is unclear to me if these modifiers are applied to beginning PC abilities, or are only apllied to PCs that reach a new age bracket. Can someone help?

[northrundicandus]

I've always applied the age modifiers to beginning PCs, so most characters end up with a bonus to STR and CON.

However, players don't roll for their age until they've assigned their stats and applied any racial modifiers. Cuts down on Min/Maxing.

The stat bonuses don't really affect game balance. AD&D by the books is pretty lethal for 1st level characters.

[Ermanaric]

Thanks Northrundicandus, that's the way I thought it worked. Having the players assign their stats ahead of time has never been a problem since I require players to roll 3d6 in order...

[northrundicandus]

Good choice on the 3d6 in order character generation method. Cuts down on the decision making and speads up character creation.

[Ermanaric]

northrundicandus said:

Cuts down on the decision making and speads up character creation.

I agree, I think that it also makes the paladin and ranger classes harder to qualify for which too many players feel they have a right to play. Only if you qualify I say.

[foster1941]

I agree that the intention of the rule seems to be to apply it to starting characters but I never did this (well, never is a big word, but I didn't usually do this, including in the last campaign). 3d6 in order with no provision to trade points (like OD&D has) or modest bonus for moderately high scores (+5% experience for prime req. 13+; also from OD&D) is pretty harsh and I suspect would lead to a lot of players being less-than-thrilled with their characters and a lot of character turnover/death. After trying all of the various methods over the years I eventually settled on Method IV (use 3d6 in order to generate 12 characters, pick your favorite) as the method I like best -- it maintains the "integrity" of 3d6 in order (which I agree is important), but softens the blow a bit by giving the player several possibilities to choose from -- I like to think that all 12 of these sets are actual characters in the game-world, and the player is simply choosing which one of these people he will "favor with his attention" and cause to rise to heroic level (a very simulationist approach, I know -- old habits die hard).

[Ermanaric]

There is a house rule I use, well not really a house rule exactly. Gygax states in the PHB that a PC may not be viable enough without at least having 2 abilities that are 15 or greater. If a player doesn't roll at least 2 fifteens, then the PCs two highest abilities are raised to 15. I never allow more than one set of dice to be rolled for abilities, or for any rerolling of ability scores.

[foster1941]

Aha! That makes a big difference. Still keeps the classes that require an exceptional score (paladin) or a broad variety of good scores (ranger, monk, bard) rare/unusual, but eliminates the bland 'joe average' characters (no scores above 13-14), which you get a lot of even using Method IV -- not that a joe average character can't be perfectly viable, but he will still tend to be at a disadvantage compared to his 'more statistically blessed' brethren, something a lot of players chafe at.

[dzubak]

Hey interesting discussion. For my upcoming on-line game I'll be giving the players the choice of
1) 4d6 x6 OR
2) 3d6 x8, reroll ones, take any 6 in consectutive order. Thus a score set of 15, 11, 10, 14, 10, 16, 11, 12 could achieve any of the following:
S15 I11 W10 D14 C10 CH16
S16 I11 W12 D15 C11 CH10
S14 I10 W16 D11 C12 CH15

I've also considered allowing players to take any 6 and place them in any order I like. I let them reroll ones in the second set to give them slightly higher scores. Though I do like your idea Ermanaric of raising the 2 highest scores to 15 if they don't meet Gygax's recommendation.

Although, I don't think it really matters as most people will choose the 4d6 method.

[AxeMental]

Still, my highest level PCs have non-steller roles, at most one 16, otherwise 9-13. I think the key is that you depend on your mind over any ability. Or it could be statistics (more average PCs so more high level PCs average).

The two 15 rule would be great for a competition game (or anyting outside your normal group).

Also average guys seem to develop more character and personality.

[mistere29]

Ermanaric said:

I never allow more than one set of dice to be rolled for abilities, or for any rerolling of ability scores.

That is very important. You are much more likely to get something way over the minumum than get a just right result if you allow re-rolls.