Double the Flavor and Double the Fun.

[AxeMental]

I am presently attempting to lay the groundwork for a character with 2 classes. The only problem is I don't seem to have a grasp as to what the rules are to do this. What I had always thought the rules were: human and 15 or higher in 1 or more primary attrib for first class, 17 or higher in second class for 1 or more primary attributes.

Someplace there is a description of a F/MU that would support this assumption (but can't seem to find the description).

However, on re-read of this topic in the PH tonight p.33, I think that any and all primary attributes must be 15 or above for the first class chosen and for the second class chosen all primary attributes must be 17 or above. So, if you made a fighter magicuser (starting as fighter), the PC would need attributes for both Str and Con 15 or more; and for both Int and Dex 17 or more.


For instance could a PC with all 10s but with a 17 dex double class as a TH/MU?

Also, what qualifies as a "primary attribute(s)" For instance the reader is told that the MU must have a high intel. and only mentions a Dex min. Are both Int and Dex Primary Attributes for this class or is only Int. primary and dex secondary (just what did Mr. Gygax mean by "primary(s)" its almost suggesting there should be a secondary(s).

OK Super Geek must get back to bed . Thanks fellow Geeks! I can sleep better knowing your out there.

Yes, just as you can sleep better just knowing "The Dude" is out there....The Dude....Shushhhh.....

[Ermanaric]

The way I always understood this was that the primary attributes were the same as pre requisite attributes or attributes that will give the PC an XP bonus.

[AxeMental]

Thats logical but seems more like an interpretation rather then a written rule. For instance the MU is said to have to have an intel. of not less then 9 and a dex not less then 6. This could be interp as the primary attributes. Then to get the 10% EAP bonus only your intel has to be 16 or greater.

I'm tending to think of primary as those that are mentioned as req. a minimum (for MU dex and intel). Otherwise there would be a hell of a lot of dual class adventurers running around (as several share 1 attrib. to get the 10% bonus.

[BonesMcCoy]

The PHB says 'principal attribute(s)', not primary. The F/MU example is at the bottom of the left column on page 33. There we have a 6th lvl F changing to MU. The dude has a 15 Str, 17 Int and 10 Dex. So clearly the principal attributes are Str for F and Int for MU. Dex is of no importance. I agree with Ermanaric though. Principal attributes are the same as those scores which grant a 10% XP bonus. Consider the Cleric class description on page 20. The very first paragraph says "the principal attribute of a cleric is wisdom". Then it says a 16 wisdom gets you 10% XP. So, to me, that says principal attribute=prime requisite=10% XP bonus.

As DM I would rule the principal attributes as follows:
Cleric - Wis
Druid - Wis, Cha
Fighter - Str
Paladin - Str, Wis
Ran - Str, Int, Wis
Magic-User - Int
Thief - Dex

The Illusionist, Assassin and Monk are a bit sticky as they do not get a 10% XP bonus for high ability scores. DM adjudication is called for here. I would rule Illusionists are Int & Dex, Assassins are Str & Dex and Monks are Str, Wis & Dex. You could throw in Int for the Assassin and Con for the Monk but I would prefer to make it a little easier on the PC by leaving them out.

Dual classing is not easy. Requiring a 15 in at least one score and a 17 in at least one more assures they will never be common. Figure in how long it takes to get the full benefit of dual classing and you practically guarantee they will be extremely rare. But that is how it should be.

[AxeMental]

Bones, thanks for the detailed answer. I see on your list that no two classes share only Dex (or any other single attribute) as the principal attribute. So, your never going to have a PC with two classes without at least one 15 and one 17.

Thanks this clears it up. I think what was throwing me with the F/MU example was the 16 con and 15 str. Gygax would have done better to make this a 13 con to prevent the confusion (as the fighter is supposed to have a min 9 str. and min 7 con, suggesting both were principle attributes).

Yeah, Principal not primary woops!