How does Turn work.

[AxeMental]

I always played that a cleric could turn if they won initiative against the undead. They could take no other action in that round as it required some concentration. I also played that one role was made to turn all types of undead in a particular direction (with no limitation in number).

However, I think I have been doing this wrong.
On pg. 65 DMG Turning it states: "turning can occur at the same time as missile discharge, magical attacks, and or spell csting. It is also subject to initiaitve determination."

So, it looks as if the cleric can perform another action (cast a spell or throw a hammer for instance) in the same round as he attempts to turn. Interestingly the cleric can't use a melee weapon when turning though.

It also suggests that if initiative is lost the monster can attack before the turn is attempted (as no casting time is given).



It also states in the same paragraph: "If the cleric attempting the turning is suc. agaisnt any or all types within the group of mult. forms of undead, that type or multiple forms of undead, that type or mult. types to the max. number indicated by the dice roll or otherwise indicated by the rules are turned, and on the next round the cleric so successful may attempt to turnother undead of the group. "

So, are there rules that say how many undead (of any particular type) can be effected with in a group of undead. It seems to suggest that if cleric ran into 30 zombies in a room could turn a max of 20 that round (and would turn the number he roled on the d20) is that correct?


Also I can't seem to find the range and area of effect of turning. For instance, if the cleric had two groups of zombies approaching him from opposite directions, could he turn both on a single attempt, or would he need to turn one group first and then turn around and turn the other on the following round? I guess it would be up to the DM to determine what a group was.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

IMC:

Turn undead is like a spell. It has a casting time of 1 segment and components V, S, M (the material component being the cleric's holy symbol); its range is line of sight, the relevant factor being whether the undead creature can see the cleric's holy symbol (i.e. it could not be used by an invisible cleric and for some undead the cleric needs to be reasonably well-illuminated). I've also house-ruled that an astral or ethereal cleric cannot affect undead except those which are at least partly in the astral or ethereal plane.

[AxeMental]

P&P wrote: "Turn undead is like a spell. It has a casting time of 1 segment and components V, S, M (the material component being the cleric's holy symbol); its range is line of sight, the relevant factor being whether the undead creature can see the cleric's holy symbol (i.e. it could not be used by an invisible cleric and for some undead the cleric needs to be reasonably well-illuminated)."

Where did you get this from, the DMG, Dragon, UA? Scotty G also thought 1 seg casting time, and believes that a turn is the only action that can be taken by the cleric in that round (no other action possible), the bit about missile fire, mag. dev. attack and spell casting was just to indicate when a turn takes place. I agree with everything you wrote except I would allow an invisible cleric to turn undead and unless it states someplace VSM I would allow it to be a prayer that could be done inside the clerics head without movement req (though I wouldn't allow a paralyized cleric to turn).

What do you make of this bit: P65 DMG "...that type or multiple types, to the max. number indicated by the dice roll or otherwise indicated by the rules, are turned, and on the next round the cleric so successful may attempt to turn other undead of the same group. This process may continue as long as each suc. attempt is successful and the cleric lives."

This seems to be saying if there was a group of 30 zombies approaching a 2nd level cleric the most he could turn at a time would be the number showing up on the d20 he roled. So, if he roled a 17, 17 of the 30 would be turned and the rest would continue. The following round the cleric could attempt to turn the rest of the zombies.
We had always played the cleric roles one time only, and if sucessful all undead are turned. If the group is mixed (say a vampire, 3 ghoul and 30 zombies) if the role was not high enough to turn the vampire or ghouls but high enough to turn the zombies the zombies would turn and the others would keep coming, no additional attempts could be made by the cleric. Is this correct?

[PapersAndPaychecks]

AxeMental said:

Where did you get this from, the DMG, Dragon, UA?

Upon reviewing my materials I have no idea where this came from. It's a house rule.

[Lord Cias]

AxeMental said:

However, I think I have been doing this wrong.
On pg. 65 DMG Turning it states: "turning can occur at the same time as missile discharge, magical attacks, and or spell csting. It is also subject to initiaitve determination."

So, it looks as if the cleric can perform another action (cast a spell or throw a hammer for instance) in the same round as he attempts to turn. Interestingly the cleric can't use a melee weapon when turning though.

No, the cleric cannot do anything else while turning undead. When it says that the "turning can occur at the same time as . . ." it means that it happens at the same time as those actions by OTHER characters, not that the cleric can both turn undead and cast a spell at the same time.

It also suggests that if initiative is lost the monster can attack before the turn is attempted (as no casting time is given).

Yes, if the monsters win initiative they may attack before the turning takes place.

It also states in the same paragraph: "If the cleric attempting the turning is suc. agaisnt any or all types within the group of mult. forms of undead, that type or multiple forms of undead, that type or mult. types to the max. number indicated by the dice roll or otherwise indicated by the rules are turned, and on the next round the cleric so successful may attempt to turnother undead of the group. "

So, are there rules that say how many undead (of any particular type) can be effected with in a group of undead. It seems to suggest that if cleric ran into 30 zombies in a room could turn a max of 20 that round (and would turn the number he roled on the d20) is that correct?

The number of undead affected per round of successful turning is 1-12 (or 7-12 in some cases, or 1-2 for minor demons and other specials). DMG, page 76, first column above the psionics tables.

Also I can't seem to find the range and area of effect of turning. For instance, if the cleric had two groups of zombies approaching him from opposite directions, could he turn both on a single attempt, or would he need to turn one group first and then turn around and turn the other on the following round? I guess it would be up to the DM to determine what a group was.

No range is given BtB. It is up to the DM to determine whether or not turning is uni-directional or radial.