DEX in OD&D

[WSmith]

Just to make sure, by the book, I went through Vol 1 (and Holmes just out of curiosity). I want to make sure I have this right:

The dex modifier applies to both initiative roll (as per the FAQ) and the "to hit" roll for missile weapons (as per Vol1). It DOES NOT modify armor class.

Not modifying AC is sooooo refreshing, if that is true. In the Gygax OD&D thread at DF, Gary's current rules state that DEX does not. I am just wondering when this kicked in, either AD&D or some suppliment.

I am really liking the less frequent and lower modifiers of OD&D.

[foster1941]

Dex modifying AC was introduced in Supp I, with the same modifier as AD&D (+1 per point above 14) and only applied to fighters:

Supplement I: Greyhawk, p. 8

Fighters with a Dexterity of greater than 14 can use their unusual manual dexterity to attempt to dodge or parry opponents' attacks. For every point over 14 they are able to reduce their opponents' chances of hitting them by 1 (5%).

One of diaglo's oft-repeated mantras is that Supp I was the beginning of the end because it was the first to attach real numerical significance to high ability scores (exceptional strength, the MU chance to know spells table based on Int, the above, the expanded Constitution bonus tables, and the fact that paladins require Charisma 17+), which led in turn to munchkinism and cheating (players showing up with multiple 18s) which led to players feeling they needed such high scores to "compete," which led eventually to AD&D 'alternate' stat-generating procedures (culminating in the infamous Method V from UA). The more I think about it, the more I think he may actually be right...

[mistere29]

He's full of Sh*t. No matter how much Gygax yelled, OD&D players still had 30th level characters dual weilding vorpal swords.

As you said yourself, the majority of the "old school players" where playing in the same Sh*tty way the zedheads and threetards do now. The only differnce between now and then is gygax was there to keep the game from dragging down to thier level.

Besides, even hardcore OD&D's usally give extra concesions to the characters anyway. It's just not codefied.

[AxeMental]

If a player roles very well and has two 18s or more I have no problem with it. But he better freakin' role it at the table with me or he might as well go home. If other PCs feel they have to compete with that thats their problem. That kind of competition exists in real life and is not un-OD&D/AD&D. Hell look at Conan, would you want to be the leader in a group that included him, he'd freakin' cut your head off if you didn't submit to his dominance.

The difference between 1E and 3E is that these higher scores meant little in real combat in AD&D while they defined combat in 3E. Infact, unless you had an 18 there was very little advantage (and good luck roling alot of those).