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Post by Thoth Amon on Aug 10, 2005 9:50:06 GMT -5
Reading these Orig D&D posts have got me hankerin' for some game! I broke out my pdfs last night and started reading them. I am hoping to make some cheat sheets for the game in case I ever get to run it. I will probably be doing the 2d6 to hit. Actually, I will get rid of all dice except d6.
I am thinking of working on a subclass for fighting men to take the place of the thief. I was thinking about it yesterday when I was walking my son home from school.
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 10, 2005 11:41:16 GMT -5
That's what I like to hear! As for getting rid of all the dice except for the d6, my goal in converting combat and saving throws to d6 was to get rid of those dice for the players -- the DM would still have all 5 dice and use them for numbers appearing, treasure, and so on (I actually sat down once and made a chart of exactly where each type of die is used in the 3 original booklets). But if you want to go that extra step and get rid of the non-d6 dice altogether there was a chart, originally published in "Fight in the Skies," republished in a Dragon article (republished again in Best of The Dragon vol. I) that shows how to approximate d% (in 5% intervals) using 2d6 that might be of some help. You don't roll the 2d6 and then check the chart to see what your d% roll would be, you determine what you need on d% and then check the chart to see what you need to roll on 2d6 to get that -- i.e. if you've got a 25% chance of success you check the chart and see that (warning -- made up numbers!) for 25% you need to roll a 2, 3, 4, 11, or 12 on 2d6. It probably sounds more confusing than it actually is -- I'll try and post the chart later. You couldn't use this chart to, for instance, roll on the random magic items table, but you could use it to, say, determine if monsters are in their lair, what types of treasure a treasure hoard contains, or if a character attempting to contact a higher plane goes insane.
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 10, 2005 21:55:05 GMT -5
As promised/threatened, here's that table for using 2d6 to generate percentages, from the article "WHAT TO DO WHEN THE DOG EATS YOUR DICE, or Some Other Calamity befalls you Twenty Minutes Before the Game Club Gets To your Place" by Omar Kwalish as reprinted in "Best of The Dragon, vol. I" (don't know what issue it originally appeared in):
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Post by Semaj The Silent on Aug 10, 2005 22:16:14 GMT -5
I hesitated to click on this thread given its title.
Ok, foster, I'm curious: why eliminate all die except d6 for the players? What's the reasoning behind that? I'm intrigued.
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 10, 2005 23:32:26 GMT -5
At risk of geekiness-overload, here also is the list I made a while back of every time a non-d6 die is used in the original 3-volume set (of course once Supplement I introduced variable hit dice and variable damage by weapon type non-d6 dice were all over the place, but until then there were actually very few places where players needed non-d6 dice; combat to hit rolls and saving throws, a very few spell effects, and that's it)
d4:
# of persons affected by Hold Person spell
Medusa (number appearing)
Gorgons (# app.)
Manticoras (# app.)
Chimerae (# app.)
Dragons (# app.)
Purple Worms (# app.)
Unicorns (# app.)
# of Trolls found w/ Orcs
Amount of Copper in Treasure Type A
Amount of Silver in TT A
Amount of Gems in TT A
Amount of Silver in TT C
Amount of Gems in TT C
Amount of Gold in TT G
Amount of Jewels in TT H
# of creatures affected by Undead Control Potion
# of creatures affected by Human Control Potion
# of creatures affected by Giant Control Potion
Duration an opponent is held by a Snake Staff
#/kind of Elementals in a Staff of Wizardry
Encounter distance underground
Type of guards/retainers in a Castle
Toll required by magic-users in castles
Levels of castle resident companions
Type of encounter in City (wilderness)
# of entries on Wilderness -- Lycanthrope sub-table
Levels of characters in wilderness companions
# of villages (and # of inhabitants per village) in a Barony
d8:
# of 1st level types affected by Sleep spell
# of creatures affected by Death Spell
# of sticks affected by Sticks to Snakes spell
Giants (# app.)
Wraiths (# app.)
Spectres (# app.)
Cockatrices (# app.)
Hydra (# of heads)
Minotaurs (# app.)
Hippogriffs (# app.)
Griffons (# app.)
Large animals (# app.)
# of wagons w/ Orcs
Amount of Copper in TT B
Amount of Copper in TT D
Amount of Gems in TT D
Amount of Gold in TT E
Amount of Copper in TT H
Amount of Gems in TT I
# of entries on Curse scrolls effects table
# of entries on Maps tables
# of medium sized animals affected by Potion of Animal Control
# of entries on Level 1 monsters table
Type of encounter in Clear (wilderness)
Type of encounter in Woods (wilderness)
Type of encounter in River (wilderness)
Type of encounter in Swamp (wilderness)
Type of encounter in Mountains (wilderness)
# of entries on Wilderness - Undead sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness - optional Woods table
# of entries on Wilderness - optional Swamp table
Wind direction
d12:
Effects of Confusion spell
Ghouls (# app.)
Wights (# app.)
Mummies (# app.)
Pegasi (# app.)
# of days before onset of Lycanthropy
Amount of Copper in TT C
Amount of Silver in TT D
Amount of Silver in TT E
Amount of Gold in TT F
Amount of Gems in TT F
Magic sword Intelligence
Magic sword Ego
# of 3 of fewer HD creatures affected by Potion of Human Control
# of creatures affected by Protection from Undead scroll
Amount of silver/gems in random treasure hoards
# of entries on Level 5 monsters table
# of entries on Level 6 monsters table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Men sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Flyer sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Giant sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Swimmer sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Dragon sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- Animals sub-table
# of entries on Wilderness -- optional Arid Plain table
# of entries on Wilderness -- optional Mountain table
d10/d20/d%:
Alternative combat "To Hit" rolls
Saving Throws
Chance of success of Dispell Magic spell (%)
Low or high chance for Teleport spell (%)
Chance of knowing, veracity, and insanity for Contact Higher Plane spell (%)
Chance of success for spell research (%)
Monster % in Lair (%)
Men (# app.)
Goblins/Kobolds (# app.)
Orcs (# app.)
Hobgoblins/gnolls (# app.)
Gargoyles (# app.)
Lycanthropes (# app.)
Nixies (# app.)
Pixies (# app.)
Gnomes (# app.)
Dwarves (# app.)
Elves (# app.)
Ents (# app.)
Rocs (# app.)
Chance of magic-user with Bandits (%)
Chance of cleric with Bandits (%)
Chance of magic items for Bandit leaders (%)
Alignment of Bandits (%)
Chance of exceptional types in Orc lairs (%)
Type of Giants encountered (%)
Chance of additional guards in Giant lairs (%)
# of Rats summoned by Vampies
Chance of Dragons talking/sleeping/spell use (%)
Size of dragons (%)
Chance of subduing dragons (%)
Balrog magic resistance (%)
Likelihood of Gargoyles attacking (%)
Chance of dispelling Nixie Charm spell (%)
Dryad reactions (%)
Chance of magic items for dwarf leaders (%)
Chance of young in Roc nest (%)
Roc reactions (%)
Chance of Yellow Mold spore attack (%)
Likelihood of treasure in hoards by Treasure Type (%)
Amount of Copper in TT E
Amount of Gems in TT E
Amount of Silver in TT F
Amount of Jewels in TT G
# of entries on Magic Items tables (all)
Alignment of Magic Swords
Primary Powers, Languages, & Extraordinary Powers for Magic Swords
Chance of Cleric spells in Ring of Spell Storing (%)
Chance of smashing Helm of Reading Magic and Languages in combat (%)
Chance of affecting characters with Helm of Telepathy
Chance of looking into a Mirror of Life Trapping (%)
Magical Items' Saving Throws
Value of gems/jewelry
Chance of gold/gems/jewelry/magic in random treasure hoards (%)
# of entries on Level 2 Monsters table
# of entries on Level 3 Monsters table
# of entries on Level 4 Monsters table
Chance of a surprised character dropping an item (%)
Chance of food/treasure distracting pursuing monsters (%)
Chance of castle residents having companions (%)
Chance of characters in wilderness to have magic items (%)
Chance of evasion in wilderness (%)
Amount paid to barman to learn information
Hit Locations on Flying creatures
Critical hits on Flying creatures
Chance of galleys shipping water (%)
Chance of a rammed ship sinking (%)
Chance to repair damage from being rammed (%)
Chance of grappling/cutting grapples (%)
Chance of drowning (%)
Chance of mermen grappling a ship (%)
Chance of damaging a ship when ramming crocodiles (%)
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Post by foster1941 on Aug 11, 2005 0:36:28 GMT -5
Ok, foster, I'm curious: why eliminate all die except d6 for the players? What's the reasoning behind that? I'm intrigued. No real reason, it's a purely personal quirk. I don't really like non-d6 dice, I think they carry too much of a "stigma of geekiness" and form a barrier against casual interest in the game -- even if you don't buy a rulebook you're still going to have to buy, and learn how to use, the dice and thus mark yourself as 'part of the cult.' I honestly think more people would be willing to try out the game if it weren't for 'the funny dice.' Probably my favorite rpg, Traveller, uses only six-sided dice and it's a noticeable phenomenon among Traveller fans that they consider themselves in some way 'more mature' and 'less geeky' than other rpg fans because their game doesn't require them to use funny dice (the fact that the rulebooks ave plain black covers without the sort of lurid 'cartoony' art common to most other rpgs also reinforces this feeling -- that Traveller is "the rpg for normal, non-geeky adults"). There's a lot of discussion at The Forge regarding "vanilla" vs. "pervy" mechanics (which, if you can excuse the dreadful jargon-names, essentially refers to mechanics which seem 'natural' and don't 'break the spell' vs. those that require some sort of mental contortion, that draw the player's attention out of the 'shared imagined space' and onto the game itself), and it's my contention that requiring dice with more or less than six sides is itself a significant "pervy" element, enough to turn off many would-be casual fans. It doesn't make any difference to us because 1) we're not casual fans, we're geeks, and 2) we've been playing forever and are used to it, but if you ask your non-gamer girlfriend or co-worker or brother or whoever to try the game, I can just about guarantee that one of the biggest initial obstacles will be "the funny dice." Aren't you sorry you asked? |
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Post by Semaj The Silent on Aug 11, 2005 1:01:51 GMT -5
Nope, that's a great explanation. Thanks!  |
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Post by Jerry Mapes on Aug 11, 2005 4:26:48 GMT -5
Case in point. Heh.
Last year prior to a discussion group meeting at hastings books I decided to try to drum up some interest in OD&D/AD&D by doing a short demo game. During my 3 hours there prior to the meeting I got to talk to a number of 3.x'ers and preach the virtues of OD&D/AD&D. But what got me was 4 people that stopped at my table who had by admittance, never seen an RPG game before... But no sooner did i mention Dungeons & Dragons, thier eyes lit up and they all said to almost the word... "OH! You mean that game with the funny/weird dice!"
Heh. Not one clue about RPGs let alone D&D... except that you use funny or weird dice! One did ask why not just d6's though. After some explaining as to why the different dice instead of just d6, i told them you could jsut use d6's but it just makes the game easier to use the listed dice but even the early game even came occasionally with chits and in a pinch even odds & evens or rock-paper-scissors could be substituted. We even had one guy in college that refused to buy dice. His reasoning was that he had spen 300 bucks on a TI scientific calculator that had programmed in the random dice routines. What was the point of spending another $4 on dice when he had already spent that much on a perfectly good random number generator?
Heh.
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Post by WSmith on Aug 11, 2005 9:51:16 GMT -5
I would like to design my own FRPG, with with only d6's or d10s used as 2-20 or d%. I just don't know ow I want to do it yet.
FWIW, Warhammer (the minis game, not the RPG) and the LOTR minis games only use d6s, (but the number varies.) I played the demo for both in the Games Workshop Store in Cherry Hill. WH is unit based, so it was so so for me. However, LOTR was man-to-man. Granted, the demo was simple, but ironically enough (as probably a few guys named Dave and Gary and a few others in the early 1970s thought) I said to myself, "if this could be a more than a wargame, (a RPG,) this would be perfect!!!" Combat was quick, minions died by the dozens, the heroes were a little tougher. Two things have kept me out of the LOTR mini hobby. First is the pricetage. Second is the painting, (I just don't have the time or desire to do it.)
Anyway, that is just more ramblings from me.
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Post by WSmith on Aug 11, 2005 11:50:29 GMT -5
Maybe I should break out the Traveller stuff again. Roll 2d6, 8+ succeeds. That seems like a good place to start. I wonder if one could make this works with some classed characters. Apparantly the Chainmail chart does something like this.
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